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Who owns the river? - Frogstar - 12-04-2013
Hey guys
Thought id start this topic to try get some clarification on a certain aspect of our wonderful country and that is "who owns the river". This after reading the awesome report "Uncharted waters of the Palmiet river": http://www.bassfishing.co.za/bassingnews/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9343 and it was pointed out that the guys were trespassing.
I think we are all in agreement that if you are on the farmers land you are trespassing, that's a no brainier.
What i would like to know is if you are on the water, in a boat or float tube what are your legal rights?
It would seem I am well within my rights, but I am no expert.
There are many many ..... many grey areas you can read all about the thoughts of SA anglers here: http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/showthread.php?2217-Who-owns-the-river. You will quickly notice that there is varying opinions about this and that farmers, lawyers and the general public such as myself all have a different answer/opinion.
what i did get from the many pages within the debate is the following:
* ownership is different from province to province
* In most places the land is owned up to the middle of the river.
* If you are in a boat on government waters you are not trespassing on the farmers land, but as soon as you get out the boat you are.
I enjoy river drifts on my float tube, so would like to know what my rights are.
Does anyone have a concrete ruling on this as stated in the law?
Disclaimer
This post is not to start a mud sling at places like Mofam (palmiet river and Arrieskraal dam) and Debos (all government waters that the farmers passionately restrict access to)
Re: Who owns the river? - Toadee - 12-04-2013
The gatehouse at TWK has a notice up saying that you may freely pull up on any stretch of bank and disembark. I understand from this that you could freely wade the entire bank if you were able to get initial access. Is this a TWK arrangement or true for all waters?
Re: Who owns the river? - Riprap - 12-04-2013
Interesting topic and one which has caused many a litigation when two farmers share a river boundary and thus not a fence line and the river runs dry.....! I would imagine that if you are floating a river with such a boundary, you would be in and out of two properties and thus trespassing?
On State dams, there would always be a controlling authority and also a fenceline indicating where the dam boundary ends and the famer starts bearing in mind that the farmer was paid out for the piece of land adjoining the dam. Any farmer who has a certain right to various uses from the water would have a contract in place with DWA.
For rivers Frogstar and in partial reply, a farmer may own the river but may also have no rights to use the water in that river thus for him it would be dead ground.
Re: Who owns the river? - Riprap - 12-04-2013
16 Give-and-take line
(1) Where a dividing line between any two holdings is formed by a watercourse or river (not being of such a nature
as to form a natural barrier for stock) or range of hills, outcrops of solid rock or kopjes, along which it is
impracticable or inexpedient to erect a fence, the owners concerned may agree on a fair give-and-take line as a
dividing line to be fenced in accordance with this Act, and, in default of agreement, any such owner may claim that
the matter shall be determined as a dispute in accordance with the provisions of the Second Schedule.
(2) Any give-and-take line so agreed on or determined, shall be deemed to be the boundary line for the purposes of
this Act but shall not otherwise affect the titles to such holdings.
Re: Who owns the river? - Q - 12-04-2013
Something my dad told me years ago. Don't know if it's true. That the owners land goes up to the high level mark, anything below that is part of the dam/river. So you can walk on land under the high level mark and not trespassing. Same with tides and beaches?
Re: Who owns the river? - jaki1979 - 12-04-2013
Q if this is true then we were not trespassing but merely passing through :blue-biggrin:
In any case if there are adjacent farms on the river system, I would politely request access to the river from the farmer in future. This seems to be the common courtesy.
Re: Who owns the river? - Applebass - 12-04-2013
Hi guys
this is easy!!!!! I have looked into this matter and I have a 94 page document on a flash drive from water affairs.There is a lot of rubbish but basicly the number 1 thing is that you MUST have legal access to the water.You cannot drive through someone land to get on without his permission.Once you have got this you can then use the water as ar as you like.You can portage around any obstical ie: a wier and carry on.You can also beach you crat on the land i you are having a problem.There are many other thing taht you may or may not do but I think that this is the inportant ones.
Re: Who owns the river? - Frogstar - 12-04-2013
Applebass Wrote:Hi guys
this is easy!!!!! I have looked into this matter and I have a 94 page document on a flash drive from water affairs.There is a lot of rubbish but basicly the number 1 thing is that you MUST have legal access to the water.You cannot drive through someone land to get on without his permission.Once you have got this you can then use the water as ar as you like.You can portage around any obstical ie: a wier and carry on.You can also beach you crat on the land i you are having a problem.There are many other thing taht you may or may not do but I think that this is the inportant ones.
Thanks Applebass That is exactly the info I wanted to know. So as long as your access is legal its all good then. I usually access rivers via low water bridges etc.
Re: Who owns the river? - Adrian115 - 12-04-2013
I have have that same problem.
There is a Dam I fish that has three farmers that own
The dam out of the three I have permission to fish from the two of them.
The other always comes and shouts at us when we fish his banks of the dam.
We don't get off our kick boat or anything we just pass thru and don't make a sound?
Re: Who owns the river? - Riprap - 12-04-2013
Adrian, try this. Drift up to his bank and drop off a nicely packaged (ribbon & all) bottle of scotch with a note saying, Dankie Oom for allowing us this marvellous opportunity to catch & release fish on this dam. Please don't shout at us as we enjoy the peace and tranquillity as much as you do. Have a merry Christmas and enjoy the scotch on a special occasion.......
Re: Who owns the river? - dollar - 12-04-2013
i have also heard that the high water level on the banks belong to the goverment, but would not chance it when the rivers run low
Re: Who owns the river? - Mombakkie - 12-04-2013
Trespassing or not, I wouldn't recommend bobbing along with the current on a pushing tide in the Breede river downstream of Malgas ...
Re: Who owns the river? - Frogstar - 12-04-2013
Mombakkie Wrote:Trespassing or not, I wouldn't recommend bobbing along with the current on a pushing tide in the Breede river downstream of Malgas ...
why not? I only have boney twig legs. Besides we need to take float tubing to the next level
Re: Who owns the river? - BASSTURD - 12-05-2013
riprap Wrote:Adrian, try this. Drift up to his bank and drop off a nicely packaged (ribbon & all) bottle of scotch with a note saying, Dankie Oom for allowing us this marvellous opportunity to catch & release fish on this dam. Please don't shout at us as we enjoy the peace and tranquillity as much as you do. Have a merry Christmas and enjoy the scotch on a special occasion.......
:blue-lol: :blue-lol: :blue-lol: :blue-lol:
Re: Who owns the river? - Ianversfeld - 12-05-2013
Hi Frogstar and all others. I agree with Appelbass, and I have the same document here in my office. A public river is owned by DWAF and they control the rules on such a piece of water. Not all pieces of water they own are open to public either and you need to get permission to get onto the (New Ceres Dam as example). The big issue is getting on and off the water with a tube, or walking along the river edge.
The highwater mark is the border of agricultural land.