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COF.... W... T... F...?

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#1
Hey Chaps

My previous COF renewal cost me R 650 in Cape Town. The guy that did it was very honest in the break down of fee's: R 400 for SAMSA, R50 for him, R 200 for his call out fee.
Fair Price? Yes, because he drove out to me to do the survey.

Now:

I've moved my rig to Jhb and had to renew the COF... (I wont name boat shops yet...). It cost me R950 to get it done...now before I bitch about the price difference, let me state the facts:

They DID NOT want to inspect my rig.

Now forgive me for making this a 2 prong bitch session:

1: Cape surveyors will NOT give you a COF with out inspecting your rig. Fact.

2: How on earth can the Jhb guys do the exact opposite and blatantly refuse to inspect your rig? All I had to do was produce previous COF, Skippers, ID, pictures of rig and pictures of equipment, pay the prescribed fee and voila... COF done? W.. T... F...?

So after chatting to the boat shop about what I had to do, and me questioning the - well - rush of price difference, they promptly noted to me that I could f*ck off back to the cape and renew the COF there and pay a cheaper price. "Its this price, or go back to your previous inspector..." - So ok, I need it done let me pay. 950 zars later and my boat not even moving from the garage I now have a new COF...

They did note to me that on my next COF renewal they might want to inspect it. Yeah, right. I cant believe that. Show your documents, pay the money and piss off. I'll put a case of beer on it next year at the same shop they wont ask to see my boat!

What I did find strange is that with out inspecting my rig, they issued my buoyancy valid until 2021. Wow - and not even doing the calcs or inspection!

So? Will it be valid if there is a serious insurance claim? Its not SAMSA up here that issue's the COF, its SADSAA that my new certificate's name is in.

I guess I dont know exactly what I'm bitching about: Is it that in CT you get the rule book checked and cross checked for your rig, all in order for a COF and pay a cheaper price, or is it that you try it in a big city and you just pay, shut up and dont ask questions?

What say the rest of you out there? Or am I the only one that deems R950 for a COF without inspection an absolute rip off?

Oh... self edit here: The COF certificate has my details wrong, crossed out and corrected as well as having the description of my boat incorrect. Will this make it invalid for an insurance claim?
Guess I'm going back to the shop tomorrow to correct this small issue.. just in case...

W... T... F...
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BWG
#2
The day you flip a boat on an angry Brandvlei is the day you are thankful for doing things the proper way.

Very shocking price and service to say the least.
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#3
Jim I see it this way, it is irrelevant if this guy sees my boat or not, when the sh... hits the fan he is not there anyway and it is your responsebility to make sure all the relevant stuff is on your boat and it is in good working order, no one needs to tell me what I need I am competent enough to know what should be there....but I agree with you this is not the way the process should be followed.....and the price for a cof up there is crazy.
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#4
Coop, whilst I do agree with you, its not exactly the law, that I understand, is being followed.

As far as I am aware the whole point of a photo of the boat during the inspection is for the inspector to PROVE to SAMSA/SADSAA that he/she did actually inspect the boat. Yes? No?

Now in the event of an accident (on the water) any self respecting insurance company will go out of their way to refute the claim, and check every last little piece of paper etc to ensure that the rules have been followed. Now in this case, they have not. So am I going to be liable in the event of an accident, especially if my boat sinks to the bottom or will the inspector/SADSAA (in this case of the new COF) be liable?
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#5
Eish that isn't cheap and not great for insurance purposes

Anybody in JHB who have done COF for less then R950? or that is going rate here?
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#6
That is definitely not the correct process or the way i was taught to renew the COF's, We HAVE to inspect the boat at every COF renewal, on a buoyancy renewal we even open the hull and pull a core sample of the foam before we can renew the buoyancy cert.

We offer COF's and renewals @ R650 currently, but you need to bring all your gear and relevant docs with for the inspection

That shop is not doing things the way they supposed to! be carefull guys!!
The Boat Doctor

Experts in propeller repairs
Rememeber Weekends last longer with a spare prop!!
The Boat Doctor Website
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BWG
#7
Here in Witbank we still have n person doing the inspections for Artlure fishing and yes he does check your boat and he only charges R350.00
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#8
Geez Fanie, for that price I'd rather call you for the guys number, do the survey in witbank then go fish the dam for the day. Recon my fuel costs will be cheaper too.

The all important question I'm trying to have answered is if the inspector/shop is flouting the rules, and an incident/accident happens, who will be liable if the insurance company refutes a claim based on non compliance?

Jasonh: could you give me an actual breakdown of the rules you guys have to follow for a renewal?
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#9
The 'weak link' in the COF system is very similar to many of our other problems in SA, it starts right at the top - SAMSA.

Make rules and then don't police them.

We have a local boat shop KZN that simply 'buys' a COF book and then hands them out to their customers like lollipops.

Many believe that the whole 'certification process' is empowering you, the user, I can assure you that that is NOT the case.

All these rules and regulations are simply an agreement between the insurers and the authorities to make rules to protect insurance companies.

Have an accident and let just one tiny little thing be out of place in the following insurance investigation and you could not only not get paid for any damages/loss, but you could get sued for everything you have because you had the wrong bailing bucket on board for example.
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#10
Hence my question John: i didnt flout the law but who will be liable?

Is anyone from sadsaa/samsa reading this?
I doubt it as its probably an association set up only to collect fees and nothing else....

In fact: what does my portion of the cof fees ACTUALLY cover?
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#11
Fishton Wrote:The 'weak link' in the COF system is very similar to many of our other problems in SA, it starts right at the top - SAMSA.

Make rules and then don't police them.

You hit the nail on the head there John.

Jim don't be fooled I'll bet my annual pay that there are inspectors in the Cape Town that do exactly the same as the inspector you refered to in JHB.

When it comes to "safety", let the responsibility rather rest with you.
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BWG
#12
Ninja, you're right - responsibility does lie with the owner.

But... Is it still right in the way that the COF is handled?
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#13
Jim_From_Zim Wrote:Geez Fanie, for that price I'd rather call you for the guys number, do the survey in witbank then go fish the dam for the day. Recon my fuel costs will be cheaper too.

The all important question I'm trying to have answered is if the inspector/shop is flouting the rules, and an incident/accident happens, who will be liable if the insurance company refutes a claim based on non compliance?

Jasonh: could you give me an actual breakdown of the rules you guys have to follow for a renewal?

Personally I use a SADSA issued inspection report which is very comprehensive and depending on the category of the vessel it has between 35 - 50 items which need to be checked during an inspection, Everything from condition of the hull, deck, flooring, fittings, controls, steering, cut outs, emergency equipment, fire extinguisher etc etc etc. If the buoyancy needs to be checked/renewed we take a core samples out of the foam and inspect for ingress of water, if all is in order we can re-issue the buoyancy, if we suspect the hull is not filled with foam as per the document, i have a endo scope which i can check inside the hull with, I doubt many others will go this far but we have the tools to do this if needed

All inspections & renewals need to conform to the Merchant Shipping (National Small Vessel Safety) Regulations 2007, SAMSA appointed surveyors & Authorised Agency Safety Officers need to pass official exams about this so they should be well aware of what needs to be checked, these renewals cannot be taken lightly as peoples lives can be at stake if things go wrong and these rules have been put in place to help when things do go wrong, the rules have also evolved over the years learning from past experiences

If you guys have any further questions regarding this you can email me direct
The Boat Doctor

Experts in propeller repairs
Rememeber Weekends last longer with a spare prop!!
The Boat Doctor Website
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#14
Report the c%&^t to SAMSA and name and shame them
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#15
A SADSAA surveyor and particularly since he is SAMSA registered, should have asked you to apply for an inspection and which is herewith attached:

[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

Jim, I would definitely take this further and I can tell you now that such fees are not endorsed by SADSAA nor encouraged!
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